Take my checks and shove em!
Thats how I felt this morning. I have to say that I am still irritated. Probably overly so without real reason. What happened?
The bank that handles two of my personal accounts went with envelope less deposits through the ATM. See, I have heard of these but none of my banks or credit unions have yet installed them - until now. My Bank of America across the street from my coffee shop has gone envelope free. And it may be enough for me to close my account.
I showed up this morning with half a dozen checks to deposit. Some for some consulting work, some were reimbursements for business purchases and one was a handwritten check to me from me from another bank account at another bank. Six checks at two different sizes (business vs personal). I noticed the big truck with the ATM service and repair graphics on the side and the huge red ATM surround graphics in the back. At first I thought that the ATMs would be down with all the workers milling around doing what appeared to be nothing. But, one BofA employee with a nametag that identified him as an ATM ambassador waved me over to be part of the 21st century. Here is how the process went for me:
Carlos: Hi, my name is Carlos, I am here to show you how to use our new ATMs. Will you be making a deposit today or a withdrawal?
Me (with checks in front of me):I will be making a deposit.
Carlos: Great. Since this system does not require envelopes, you will have to insert them into the slot right here (motions to slot) face up and with the check numbers first.
Me: (Inserting Card)
Carlos: Now enter your pin number (Turns his back)
Me: (Inserting my PIN) noticing that everyone else around me is watching me closely
Carlos: Great now select deposit then checks then which account you would like to deposit to.
Me: How long are they going to have you out here doing this?
Carlos: Uhhh, I’m not sure really, today for sure maybe tomorrow. Now please insert your checks one at a time.
Me: Insert check number 1
Carlos: Now wait for the system to scan the check
Me: Waiting for 5 seconds that felt like 15.
Carlos: Is the amount correct?
Me: Yeah.
Carlos: Ok, then press yes. Now press yes you have another check to deposit.
Me: (thinking how stupid and time consuming this is, shoves the next check into the slot.)
Carlos: Ok, now is that…
Me: I got it…
Carlos: Ok cool.
Me: (wondering if this really helps the bank or me. I shove the next check in and press my buttons like a lab monkey waiting for a banana. I begin to think that the bank is saving time and money by unloading this logistical wok on me the customer. I then begin to wonder how this benefits me in any way. What normally takes me only 20 seconds now takes a minute and a half and everyone gets to watch what I am doing. Thank God I wasn’t feeding $100 bills into this thing. I would get mugged.)
Carlos: Ok, see how easy it is?
Me: Yeah.. um, ok
Carlos: And your receipt will have an image of each of your checks on the receipt for your records.
Me: Uh huh, (thinking that we didn’t really save any paper if I get n 18 inch strip of chemically treated paper that will fade in 3 to 6 months “For my records”.). So, are there now going to be images on my online banking system that shows each of these deposited checks?
Carlos: Yes, so you have them on your receipt AND on your internet banking account.
Me: (thinking why gives me an 18-inch receipt if I can just look at the checks online? This is just proof that they were just wasting chemically treated paper.) Yeah thanks. Take it easy.
So, my experience was less than convenient. To be honest, I don’t like it. I have a rule, if I have to do more work to do business with you, you should compensate me for my time. Either give me a discount or cash or make your service better. I left the bank and went to the coffee shop to ask the employees if they have ever used the system before. One of the employees uses Wells Fargo who has been providing this system for a while. He told me that he could just slide in all his checks and the ATM would sort them automatically. This would be a little more convenient, but my concern was that I had two different sized checks. What if one didn’t get logged? How could I get it out? How could I prove that I had put the check in? If they found it after the fact, how would they know to apply it to my account? I only ask because that has happened before.
As for the benefits, the only one I saw was a visual record on my online account of the checks that I deposited. Couldn’t they do this anyway? They do it for the checks I write against the account. Why couldn’t they do it both ways without me using this stupid system?
So here I sit complaining. No one in our office likes the idea of a no-envelope ATM for deposits. It might be fine if you have one check, but it is not really more convenient - it seems to take more time. No one is impressed that a copy of the check is on the receipt. It seems to be a waste of paper and now what do you do with the receipt? Shred it. Why would I hold on to it until it fades then throw it out? Does any user of this technology actually like it? Were focus groups done? Were users consulted. Or is simply a bottom line issue? Was it a simple matter of eliminating the payroll it takes to process these checks by hand?
If this is such a great idea, I guess we will soon see self serve Starbucks, or maybe Self Serve hair salons. I know there used to be a self serve dog-grooming shop here in town - but it went out of business shortly after opening. I guess some people actually expect service providers to provide some service.
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CK, you kind of illustrate my point. I could ALWAYS deposit my checks 24-hours a day and receive instant credit to my account. If I had a 0 balance and deposited a check for $200.00 - I could instantly take out $200.00. Bank of America has been offering that service to me for at least 12 or 13 years.
The elimination of empty envelope fraud benefits the bank or credit union for sure - but why should the inconvenience be placed on me, the customer, for these other lowlifes that try to defraud the bank? Why should my experience have to suffer to benefit the bank?
If all banks go this way, I will either bank at a small local bank that cannot afford this technology or figure out another solution. I am pretty good at figuring out ways to make MY life easier - I just wish that my bank would.
And to answer your question, yeah, this is enough for me to cancel my account with Bank of America that I have had since 1991. I talked to my wife after I posted this and she said that she will be using the branch across town unless they switch too. So far, the only people who really like this technology, are the banks and credit unions. That is never a GOOD sign when introducing technology or systems into your business model.
The worst part of this is that I also have to look at this as a marketer. I am 32 years old, early adopter of technology and a general technogeek. All indicators would be that I should love this - but I don’t. It is just another barrier between me and my financial institution.
“What normally takes me only 20 seconds now takes a minute and a half and everyone gets to watch what I am doing.”
Little things like that drive me crazy. Yet another “convenience” that’s basically a way to put that minute of work from an employee to a customer. If it were just as fast as before, that would be pretty rad. I get so antsy about making ATM deposits, I always end up going into a branch instead. Actual confirmation would make me feel a whole hell of a lot better. But not if it’s a PITA.
Well I guess I am the exception because I actually switched to BOA BECAUSE of these machines. For me it looks like they are on the cutting edge. Before these machines there is no way whatsover that I would put cash in an atm. Checks yes, but cash no. There would be no way to prove that I had put it in there. Did you hear about the Brinks guard arrested in Florida for stealing thousands of dollars of cash from envelopes that he picked up? This eliminates that problem. Also, the machines are built to utilize the benefits of Check-21. I guess the “gadget geek” in me is willing to put up with an extra minute if I am getting piece of mind that my deposit will go through and I will never have to deal with an error in calculation as the machine does the work of adding up the total deposit. I also use deposit@home from USAA but I guess most people here wouldn’t like it as it takes a couple of minutes to scan the checks.
20 years ago in Seattle, there was a great regional bank called Seafirst. When they put in ATMs, they offered a $1 credit every time you deposited a check through their ATM. Not $1 per day…$1 for every check. So if I had 3-4 checks, I’d use 3-4 envelopes and get $3-4.
It seemed like a really fair deal to me: “You don’t want me in your branch because that costs money. You want me to adopt a new technology that helps you minimize expenses. I get paid for it.” Great. Fair. They kept this in place for something like 3-4 years.
Ironic epilogue: BofA took Seafirst over.
Another blogger posted a related thought about ATM services just recently:
http://denisewymore.blogspot.com/2007/11/just-because-you-can-do-something.html
Her point: “Do I want to wait in line at an ATM for 15 minutes while someone applies for a loan???”
First I should say that this is just my gut reaction to a change in the way I do business. It is no reflection on the machines or their manufacturers. Not that I really care if I offend anyone with this (my opinions are only my opinions), it is just that maybe there is something that I am missing with this.
@Elaine - My other bank (the one I use for my business accounts) is right next door and they have awesome customer service and an “Old School” drive through teller station where there are 3 women in a building looking at you and the vacuum systems. I think they have had this for about 30 or 40 years. I might just go there - I know nothing would come up “Missing”. Plus it is kind of fun to sit in your car, playing your music and talking with these ladies (they are always nice and kind of funny).
@CK - You are right, it LOOKS like they are on the cutting edge, but to me it feels like they are Huck Finn and I am Tom Sawyer with paintbrush in hand. I am doing all the work. I also don’t usually deposit cash so losing cash hasn’t been an issue in the past (I usually keep the cash in my pocket). And it isn’t just the extra time but the extra steps as well that irritate me. I keep a few deposit envelopes in the car, slip the checks inside, seal it, write the total on the outside and when I get to the ATM - bing bang boom, I’m out of there. The whole feeling of exposure and having to verify each check and tapping the screen three times per check is irritating. I don’t know any other way to explain. Yeah, the tech is cool but, not everything that is cool and new is better than what is already there and reliable. One last thing (and this post is almost longer than my original post). My business bank also offers a check scanning “Instant Deposit” service. We said no thanks. We actually like the bank that we bank at and don’t mind dropping off the checks in person.
@Jeffry - I like that idea. Now THAT is enough to make me do it. Not for the sake of the cash but the fact that they are acknowledging that they are putting the effort on me instead of trying to blow smoke up my butt about how convenient it is for me (aren’t I the one to determine if it is actually convenient for me?). Plus, the time and effort and inconvenience it takes for you to fill out the envelopes or insert the checks makes you $3, you could walk across the street and use that money for an iced carmel coffee. WooHoo! It would actually make me excited to go to the ATM.
Reminds me of the self-checkouts at the grocery store. They are supposed to make things easier, but half the time, I’m struggling with the thing either looking for a code (damn you produce!) or there is an unidentified object in the bagging area….
Aaah, technology. Convenience is sometimes so, so inconvenient.
I read about your process and I had to laugh. I can only imagine the gleeful faces of the executive at BofA when this cutting edge technology was demonstrated. I left this same comment on the OpenSourceCU blog “designed by idiots to be run by geniuses”. Did anyone give this the sanity test? Is the idea of envelope-less deposits really a security measures or just a bad attempt at showing Corporate and Social Responsibility by jumping on the green bandwagon? Maybe I am simply too old-fashioned to grasp the concept of why this would be considered cool.
Technology is suppose to serve us, not the other way around.
I feel your pain Tony! I’ll be the schlep who ends up in line behind a guy depositing 477 checks on a Friday.
@Christopher - LOL. I hear ya … but it is nice to slide through self-checkout when I have just a few items … is it me, or do they always put the slowest clerk in the express lane. (?)
So since I posted this, I have gone back to use the machine twice more. Both experiences sucked. The first of the 2, I deposited a printed check but it seems the OCR wasn’t working properly because the ATM couldnt guess the check amount (but It was able to figure out my handwritten check - go figure). Now the ATM wants me to manually enter the amount of the check. Well, I forgot how much the check was for (it was an odd number).
I started looking for a check eject button (there was none) but I saw a “Zoom” button. Well that zoom button doubles the size of their fax-like scan of the check. Needless to say it wasn’t very clear. So here I am hunching over the ATM screen. By the way, I am 6′2″ and this screen (I guess for ADA purposes) was about 3 feet off the ground. So I really had hunch over to try and make out the scan. Getting mad and looking ridiculous as I look like I am kissing the machine (I have 20/20 vision), I finally punch in a number and say “the hell with it” and complete the transaction. I shot a look at the ATM Ambassador and went about my business.
On my next (and quite possibly last) visit to the infernal ATM beast. I am finally going to make a withdrawal. This has got to be easier right? No, not really. Now I can accept that I am probably pretty prejudiced at this point. I am not fit to take any guff from this thing. I just want my money and I want to go. I stick in my card and wait…and wait…does this thing run on Windows XP or something? I look back at the ATM Ambassador as the ATM has yet to respond. I wonder if he recognizes the frazzled redheaded maniac about to grab him by his name tag. Finally the ATM requests my pin. I punch it into the console (the buttons require you to mash them down to register). Then I hit “checking”. Now I have been having a problem with the tactile interface of these machines. I thought maybe it was because there is a piece of glass four inches from the screen that I touch creating a displacement with the interface from my perspective. So I have been spending a lot of time hunting and pecking. Plus, the GUI (graphical user interface) is all messed up because the buttons are super close together on a touch screen. I don’t have big giant Tony Robbins fingers or anything. But I was close to sitting on the ground and whipping the stylus out of my Treo to complete this transaction after several miskeys.
Finally I finish. I am crazy frustrated now because I am running late and this whole exercise has reaffirmed my disdain for these things. I grab my money and my receipt and go. I head to the mexican drive-thru to grab a California burrito (for non-Californians this is a Steak, Potato, Cheese and Sour Cream Burrito - so freaking good!). I reach for my ATM card…
Yeah, I left it in the machine. See when you make a deposit, after you insert the check and hit “No, complete my deposit” button, your card gets spit out. I forgot to hit the “I have no more transactions” button to get my card. Crap. No I have to drive back across town with my burrito getting cold and my Horchata (Mexican Iced Cinnamon Rice Milk - Don’t knock it till you try it.) getting hot to go pick up my card.
I get back to the bank and find out I have to stand in line to talk to a teller. There is no one at the info booth and there are about 15 people in line. Finally I get up to the #3 position when the bank manager does her “Sweep” to see if she can help anyone with anything. I ask for my card. She takes me over to the information booth, takes my ID and contact info and then says “Yeah, I expect that we will be getting quite a few of these since we put in the new machines.”
I refrained from freaking out.
I calmly told her “Yeah, I kind of hate them”. She looked up, clearly surprised “You HATE them?”. I shrug, “Yeah.” She asked me why. I gave her the whole list of things in bullet point fashion. I mean I am not an ass. I know this wasn’t her fault. She looks at me and says “Oooh, you deposit a lot of checks… Yeah I can see why you don’t like them.” Then she kind of shrugged and apologized.
I was floored. I didn’t expect her to do anything or try to placate me. Her attitude didn’t bother me. It was the fact that she acknowledged the obvious flaw in this system. She might as well have said “Yeah, people who regularly deposit checks will be inconvenienced by the new system. Maybe it will prompt people to not deposit so many checks”.
Trust me, I think it will. I think I will deposit my money somewhere else.
@Jeff Hardin: If you’re behind a guy depositing 477 checks, call the cops. You’ll probably be a hero for helping capture a crook.
Seriously, what is your problem with the new machines? They are great. How about the fact that you can make a deposit up to 8pm, several hours after the branch has closed and get SAME day credit? How about cash deposited is available for immediate withdrawl. This cuts down on the “empty envelope” fraud which is a benefit to us all. WIth the old machines, if you made a deposit after regular hours, you sometimes wouldn’t get credit for 2 days. This is the future where ALL the banks are going. Would you really cancel your account over this?